GamersInfo.net: The new oceans, will they coincide with the box release through Ubisoft?

Daniel James: No. We placed our first ocean in February and then launched a second an ocean, Cobalt, shortly after that. We have a second partner in MiniClip.com and they have a huge audience and the new ocean to support them.

The really unique thing about this island is it will be an experience. We've introduced an experiment in micro-payments with this new ocean - Veridian.

GamersInfo.net: I know that the Asian markets are years ahead of us in micro-payments. They not only "pay as you play" but are even introducing payments through the use of a telephone calling card.

Daniel James: There are a number of reasons for doing this. There are essentially two sides to this coin. The Koreans, Japanese and Chinese will go crazy for this business model. Whenever we've spoken to them about supporting Puzzle Pirates they've always agreed but said not without the micro-payments. Just because this will do well in those countries it's a reason to do it even if it doesn't succeed in the US or Europe and so forth.

The other side of the coin is Runescape and the whole "free to play" server. Our take on that is we'd like a "free to play" version of Puzzle Pirates but not necessarily a crippled version by reducing the amount of content available to the player.

GamersInfo.net: We have some very loyal players of Runescape on our staff and the key is they're under the age of 18 and therefore don't have credit cards. Runescape gets around this with other types of payments so if you can tap into that you'll allow a younger audience to participate.

Daniel James: Our take is slightly different than the "pay for item" micro-payments that have been done before. We're using what we call Doubloons - purchased with credit cards for now but it will be open to other forms of payment in the future. They currently go for $.25 each. You don't need Doubloons to play - the game is free and there is no time restriction. However, when you go to purchase items, and particularly the fancier items, you'll need to pay the Doubloon payment along with the Pieces of Eight for cost.

The reason we're doing this sort of double payment strategy is because we want to maintain this existing game of going out, sailing around and pillaging - you're going to need PoE - we don't want to break that. You still have to play the game and earn PoE so they can say, buy a black outfit. However, what we're hoping and are seeing is that there are two classes of players: there are the players that will play all the time and never give you any money - they will earn the PoE; then there are the people who have less spare time and are happy to give you money with their credit card.

We've got a Doubloon Exchange at the bank that will allow you to walk in with the currency of your choice for an exchange at whatever the going rate is.

GamersInfo.net: So, if I understand you correctly I could simply buy my Doubloons, go in game, and trade them for PoE without having put in the time to earn them through trade.

Daniel James: Yes. And on the flip side, we've got the kid who's got no credit card, can just pillage like the clappers, make PoE, go and trade them for Doubloons and go and buy that black outfit.

It's a giant experiment. I don't know if it's going to work or not!

GamersInfo.net: It's a great idea if people "get it".

Daniel James: I think that anyone who plays the game is going to get it. It's not hard to understand that when you buy something it's going to cost both Doubloons and PoE.

There are other games that work with the micro-payment only system but what I think you'll find with those is they tend towards high-end purchases from as little as $20-300 and even as much as $1000!

My hope is with the model I'm working on there will be some people who want to play the game with large amounts but most people will simply want to play the game at an ordinary level - and that's great.

GamersInfo.net: What about the IGEs of the world and the other companies who sell items in this style of game for real world currency? They're going to want to get involved in this…

Daniel James: They'll be completely marginalized, there's no business for them in my humble opinion. The only business there is undercutting the Doubloon Exchange. So, say I'm one of these kids that have collected phenomenal amounts of PoE and instead of spending them of outfits or ships they decide to cash out. We won't support that. So, there is an eBay or IGE business to cash out at marginally less than we sold our Doubloons at originally. If we sell them at $.25, then they may get them for $.10-$.15.

It's so marginal because the incentive is to circulate the stuff back into the economy. I don't think people will be collecting large quantities of Doubloons that they can't use. The other thing is they're very heavily incentivized by the gameplay to give them away because if there are people in your crew who want to be officers you'll have to buy them officer badges. So, you buy a bunch of officer badges or something along those lines.

Maybe there will be some business but I hope not. I hope the players support it.

GamersInfo.net: I think by do this you're going to open this up to Asia in a big way and to children. So even if you only get one successful ocean with this economic model you're going to open it up to two segments of the population who have never been able or wanted to play before.

Daniel James: I don't know if it will work. It will take months to determine that. Ultimately we don't want to destroy our subscription business. But what we suspect is most of the people who play the subscription game are going to swap them side by side. They'll be able to try one and the other and then choose.

Originally with Doubloons we wanted to implement them so people could play for small amounts of time. The idea was that you'd buy Doubloons and it would cost you maybe $.75 for a day at a time. If you only paid 5 days a month it would only cost you a few dollars a month and that would be a way for people to get into the game without having to commit to a subscription.

But then we realized as soon we had this currency floating around people were going to trade it for PoE, etc. We then decided against the time purchase on the subscription server purely because we don't want to introduce this cash-poor currency in Pieces of Eight due to the existence of Doubloons.

GamersInfo.net: You're going to have very different populations on the servers.

Daniel James: We're interested in segmenting our player base that way. We have a great community on our subscription servers - they tend to be older players - so on and so forth. Arguably, the mini-payment audiences tend to be younger, not older. If you look at Runescape's success they're very young.

We've talked about Runescape quite a bit here and it's a MUD or an MMORPG if you like. But it's incredibly compelling. It's crack in a box and you don't even have to buy the box you get the download for free! So, from the first time you play that, you fall in.

It used to be you'd go to the University and there'd be the guys playing the text-based games and they'd never leave. They'd have their caffeinated drink and they'd simply never leave. That kind of thing has simply developed a few years to an audience that is no less prone to falling in.

My first MUD experience was when I was 12. It only ran from 1am-7am. I would get up at somewhere between 3-5am until it shut down and would get to school an hour early. Then on the weekends it was the other way around - I'd stay awake all night. That was great when I was 13. I can totally see that Runescape that is currently the crack du'jour for the younger crowd because downloadable and it's free.

GamersInfo.net: And it's familiar. With the younger crowd familiar can make a difference.

Daniel James: Familiar because it's fantasy?

GamersInfo.net: Yes. It's where we were 10-15 years ago. As they mature they'll be ready for something more unique and different.

Daniel James: Maybe, yes. It's a powerful argument for doing a fantasy-style game.

When I was talking to the lads about this just a few days ago - how do they get so many players? Miniclip and others sends them many thousands….probably hundreds of thousands. And it wasn't like this just a year ago. And he's indicative of a generation. These kids are super on the IM and everything else and they're so used to sending each other URLs. The reason we were talking about it is because Runescape is the #1 searchable game on Yahoo. World of Warcraft and everything else is down below.

It's very interesting and we're going to try and capture some of that audience.

GamersInfo.net: Is any of the gameplay designed any differently? The idea of a 14-year old Governor scares me!

Daniel James: Well, if the Flags are all 14-year olds I don't know that it's that big a deal, but it scares me, too. I'm afraid of Lord of the Flies - as long as Lord of the Flies happens over "there". This one of reasons we're maintaining the subscription business - because it has this very high entry barrier and because we want to preserve that community.

And even if the Doubloon servers become highly profitable we'll still maintain the subscription servers because we want to maintain that community. And I suspect we'll even see some segmentation on the Doubloon server. Assuming this business model works and some people do get out their credit card and not everyone is walking around and working the Navy all the time… Then who are the people who will spend the money? Is it going to be adults? Kids with their parents credit cards? There could be some segmentation there and you'll find people who are very wealthy and people who aren't.

GamersInfo.net: Will you be adding more content on the mature server? You've already stated that you're running out of islands.

Daniel James: Yes, we will. And more with the new subscriber services as well. With Miniclip because of their demographic we think they're going to play the Doubloon Island. With the Ubisoft publish, we think that it's going to increase the new subscription ocean.

GamersInfo.net: Are Ubisoft doing marketing and PR for you or just publishing and distribution?

Daniel James: They're going to spend some money in marketing and spend some money in PR. It's one of the reasons we've been working on updates while we worked out that deal and now that it's moved forward, we've started to place it all in the game.

It retails for $19.99, one month free, there will be a single player experience as well which will not be available except on download unless you pay $20 on download. But, we're very optimistic about the publish.

We want to grow both sides of the models. So with any luck, in six months we'll have 3-4 subscriber servers and hopefully 5-10 Doubloon servers. That would be the "big win". And all of those naughty kids who are playing Runescape will come and play on the Doubloon servers and that will be great!

I think Puzzle Pirates is a much better experience and more fun. You're not just playing mini-games; you're playing games with a purpose. It's great when you notice that what you're doing makes a difference in the sailing of the ship.

GamersInfo.net: Can you tell us a bit more about the new Mission system?

Daniel James: The idea of the missions is to introduce new players to the new parts of the game. So, you could go work on a Navy ship or sail a Navy ship and so on. But you could also go and work at a shop. The mission system lets you work at a shop and get paid for it, without actually being a subscriber.

We're not trying to make up for a long quest system as such, but it used to be that when you entered the game you had a little introduction and then the next stage was you got dumped off the ship and it was like, "OK, work it out!" We had the notice board and a list of Navy Ships and a list of player ships you can job for but it wasn't entirely clear what the difference was and what you would do.

What we're placing on the Mission Board is a list of 5 fun things to do. There will always be a list of 5 things to do but as you do more of them more will open up to you to try. So to start off it may be: Go Bilge on a Navy Ship, Go Complete a Job in a Shop, Go Compete in a Sword Fight, etc. Then as you complete one and go back and get another one. It's a directed user experience.

It will also alleviate one of the issues people have - and you mentioned this earlier in that you never get to navigate. Through the Mission system you can do the sailing, carpentry and bilge and then it will open up gunning. Then once you've done that a bit you can get to navigate in a Navy ship; then you'll actually get to take them into battle against brigands. So, you'll get to see some of the high level content without to join a crew and work through their system.

GamersInfo.net: Not only that it makes you more skilled for those captains that are picky about the people they take aboard. I have been refused jobs for not having a high enough skill and this would be a way to work towards increasing it.

Daniel James: Yes, it will certainly help people develop their skills so that captains pick them up it will hopefully train better captains as well.